My Sixteen – John William Giles – Part 3

Was he Larkin Foreman Giles' father?

In Part 1 and Part 2, we were introduced John William Giles and his wife, Elizabeth Foreman, who lived in Sofala, central New South Wales, during the 1850s and ran a hotel. Their son, Larkin Foreman Giles, was born on 8 September 1862 but John William Giles may have already left Sofala by then. DNA may answer the question of whether John William Giles was indeed Larkin’s biological father.

Image by geralt from Pixabay

Larkin (Jack) Foreman Giles was the only surviving child of his parents, so we must look at the generation before him for a Giles DNA connection. Of John William Giles’ four brothers, only one had known children, that was Charles Pratt Giles.

Charles Pratt Giles married Catherine Gallop in Isleworth, London in 1849.¹ They had three children; Mary Catherine Giles born 1850, Charles John Giles born 1852, and John William Giles born 1854.² Charles Pratt Giles died in 1859.³ His children moved to Lancashire and Cumberland, where they have many descendants.⁴

Evelina Hannah Giles was the only sister of John William Giles. She married Richard Bennet Arthur in 1845 in Cobham, Surrey.⁵ They had seven children; Richard Bennett Arthur born 1847, Caroline Bennett Arthur birth registered 1848, Catherine Bennett Arthur birth registered 1848, Walter Henry Arthur born 1850, Sidney Arthur born 1851, died 1858, Mary Eveline Arthur born 1853 and Elizabeth Marian Arthur born 1853.⁶ Of Evelina’s children, only her daughters, Caroline, Catherine, Mary and Elizabeth had known children.

There are many descendants of the nieces and nephews of John William Giles. The author has access to the results of six DNA kits of the descendants of Larkin Foreman Giles. There are no obvious matches with other Giles descendants. Some of these other Giles descendants have Ancestry trees. Eight have been contacted and asked if they have submitted their DNA to AncestryDNA. Three descendants have done so but do not match any of the six Australian Giles test takers. On Thrulines, there are no matches with descendants of John William Giles’ parents, John Pratt Giles and Mary Elizabeth Gibbs, except for the descendants of Larkin Foreman Giles.

There are, however, eleven matches on Thrulines with descendants of John William Giles’ mother, Mary Elizabeth Gibbs’ mother, Sarah Stanbridge’s siblings, the children of Walter Stanbridge and Mary Isted of Sussex. These matches are 6^th cousins on Thrulines which appears to be the correct number of generations having 5x Great-grandparents in common. However, they have very low centimorgans in common with seven Larkin Foreman Giles descendants; they range from 6-25cMs with the majority in the 6-8cM range. Ancestry DNA no longer provide users with DNA matches with less than 8cMs. The matches with 6-7cMs had previously been assigned to a group.

According to Thrulines, which is only as accurate as everyone’s trees, the eleven matches are descended from four other children of Walter and Mary Stanbridge. Four have big enough trees or trees have been built for them that confirms them as probable descendants of Walter and Mary Stanbridge. One of the four says it is a match on the Maternal side of one test taker whose mother has not tested. Two of the remaining nine matches say they are also on the Maternal side of the test takers; however, the mother of these test takers also took an AncestryDNA test. Only one of the two appear as a match with this mother. One match has a similar surname to a descendant of the Stanbridge descendants; however, they are many counties away and there is an anomaly with the connecting person.

Using AncestryDNA’s Shared Match Pro, three matches on Thrulines match people on other unrelated branches of the test taker’s family tree. One other match has no matches and a private unsearchable tree, one has three matches who either do not have trees or only Private people on their trees, and many have three or less matches.

These suggested Stanbridge matches from Thrulines do not appear to match each other. As the cMs in common with the Australian Giles descendants are low and most trees of the matches are not large enough to be helpful, it is unclear whether they actual match or how they match.

Blaine Bettinger’s Shared cMs Project, Version 4.0, suggests that the cMs shared by 6^th cousins could range from 0-71, with an average of 18.⁷ This does fit in with the Stanbridge matches. Other sides of the Giles family tree do have well documented 6^th cousin matches in the 6-8cM range.

A direct male descendant of Larkin Foreman Giles completed a Y-DNA test at the Big Y-700 level to determine the source of Larkin Foreman Giles’ Y-DNA. Unfortunately, there are no exact matches with the Haplogroup. None of the eight Y-DNA matches at the 37 and 25 marker level have the surname Giles, nor do they share the same surname with each other except a father and son. None of the Y-DNA matches are at the Big Y-700, 111-marker or 67-marker level. The nearest match is one at the 37-marker level that suggests a potential common ancestor in 1300CE. This match is from South Africa with a Dutch surname. Seven Y-DNA matches are at the 25-marker level. One match is a direct male descendant of Sir Robert Bruce, 2nd Baron Clackmannan, 1348-1403. There are also three matches from Ireland, one from England and another Dutch sounding name. Over time, the Y-DNA sample may produce closer matches.

Was John William Giles the father of Larkin Foreman Giles? The answer is, there is no definitive proof, but it cannot be completely ruled out at this stage.

Future Action:

• Ask all descendants of Larkin Foreman Giles who have had their DNA tested to check for matches to JWG’ brother and sister’s descendants.

• Convince one of the last living grandchildren of Larkin Foreman Giles to have a DNA test to get DNA one step closer.

• Wait until more people get their autosomal DNA and Y-DNA tested.

• Learn more about Y-DNA test results.

• Upload DNA to other online databases.

1. Ancestry.com. England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973, Charles Pratt Giles and Catherine Gallop, Marriage, 22 March 1849; Isleworth, London, England, FHL Film Number: 585453, 597917.

2. Ancestry.com. Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1921, Mary Catherine Giles, baptism, 3 February 1950; Charles John Giles, baptism, 9 November,1851; John William Giles, baptism, 24 December 1954; St Nicolas, Great Bookham, Surrey, England, Surrey Church of England Parish Registers; Reference: Bkg/3/2.

3. Ancestry.com. England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995, Charles Pratt Giles, Letters of Administration, 11 February 1860, Principal Probate Registry, London, England.

4. Ancestry.com. 1881 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004. Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1881. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1881. 1881 Census Record for Catherine Giles, her son in law George Baines and grandchildren, Cuerdon, Lancashire, England, TNA, Class: RG11; Piece: 4216; Folio: 76; Page: 7; GSU roll: 1342009; Ancestry.com. 1891 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004. Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1891. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Public Record Office (PRO), 1991. 1991 Census for Charles John Giles and family, Millom, Cumberland, England, TNA, Class: RG12; Piece: 4321; Folio: 126; Page: 51; GSU roll: 6099431.

5. Ancestry.com. Surrey, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937, Evelina Hannah Giles and Richard Arthur, Marriage, 27 November 1845; St Andrew’s Church, Cobham, Surrey, England, Surrey Church of England Parish Registers; Reference Number: Cob/2/4.

6. Ancestry.com. England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975, Richard Bennett Arthur, Baptism, 14 February 1847, Saint Mary, Aylesbury, Buckingham, England, FHL Film Number: 919409. Ancestry.com. England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915, [database on-line], FreeBMD. Richard Bennett Arthur, birth registered Q1 1847, Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England; Findmypast.com.au. England & Wales Births 1837-2006, [database on-line], General Register Office (GRO), England. Caroline Bennet Arthur and Catherine Bennet Arthur, births registered Q2 1948. Abingdon, Berkshire, England; Ancestry.com. England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915, [database on-line], FreeBMD. Walter Henry Arthur, birth registered Q3 1849, Staines, Middlesex, England; Ancestry.com. England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915, [database on-line], FreeBMD. Sydney Arthur, birth registered Q2 1851, Tenterden, Kent, England; Ancestry.com. Surrey, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1997, Sidney Arthur, Burial, 30 October 1858, St Mary, Ripley, Surrey, England, Surrey, England; Surrey Church of England Parish Registers; Reference: RIP/5/1; Ancestry.com. Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1921, Mary Evelina Arthur and Elizabeth Marian Arthur, Twin Birth, 30 March 1853, Send and Ripley, Surrey, England, Surrey Church of England Parish Registers; Reference: RIP/4/1.

7. Blaine Bettinger, 22 March 2020, Version 4.0! March 2020 Update to the Shared cM Project!, online, the Genetic Genealogist, https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/2020/03/27/version-4-0-march-2020-update-to-the-shared-cm-project.